Full Transcript (lightly edited)

Episode 007 — Testing in a Test Optional World
Guests: Bill Huston & Ryan Krug, Mindfish

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Intro

This episode is about testing in college admissions. My guests, Ryan and Bill from Mindfish, are incredibly smart and experienced. I’ve told them we’ll focus our conversation on the “test-optional” piece of the puzzle.

Before we bring them on, let me set the stage.

When we say testing, we mean the SAT and ACT. These are different tests from different companies, but colleges treat them interchangeably. They truly do not prefer one over the other.

That means students decide which test to take. I usually advise students to try each test once—either in a real setting or a high-quality practice setting—and then compare scores using a concordance table. Whichever one they perform better on is the one to focus on.

From there, I recommend taking that test at least twice. Many colleges superscore, meaning they'll take your best individual section scores across test dates.

This is the “take the test and decide later whether to submit it” approach. I like this approach, and I expect Ryan and Bill will support it as well.

But some students know that testing just isn’t viable for them—they won’t reach a score they’re proud of, they have debilitating test anxiety, or they simply don't have the time or energy to improve meaningfully. In those more rare situations, I think it’s fine to skip testing entirely and lean fully into test-optional admissions.

For everyone else, the decision is more nuanced—and it starts by taking the test and seeing what you’re working with.

When we come back, we’ll dig into what “test-optional” really means with Ryan and Bill. Stick around.

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Guest Segment

Announcer:
It’s The College Talk Show!
Today’s theme: Testing in a Test-Optional World
With special guests, Bill Huston and Ryan Krug.
And now, here’s your host — Chris Bell!

Chris:
Welcome back! I am so happy to have our guests here today. Bill Huston and Ryan Krug are co-founders of Mindfish right here in Colorado. They know the testing world inside and out, and they’re here to help us break everything down.

Welcome, Bill. Welcome, Ryan.

Bill:
Thank you!

Ryan:
Thanks, Chris — so happy to be here.

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Where do we stand with test-optional today?

Bill:
I’d say test-optional is still the norm. Most colleges in the U.S. are test-optional. But that can mean different things depending on the school and depending on how you apply.

A few schools are test-free—for example, the University of California system does not use SAT or ACT scores at all.

On the other end of the spectrum, some colleges have returned to requiring test scores. There’s been some movement in that direction, but it’s still a minority.

The vast majority remain test-optional.

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So what should students do? Should everyone take a test?

Ryan:
Given the variety in policies, the safest approach is to assume at least one school on your list will require or prefer scores. You don’t want to get deep into your applications and suddenly realize your dream school (like University of Florida) requires scores and you never took a test.

So generally: prepare, take a test, see where your score lands, and then decide. Keep future options open.

Bill:
Right. We’re test-prep people, but we’re not dogmatic. Some students don’t need to test. Some should put their time elsewhere. But for most students, having a score is helpful—even if you ultimately choose not to send it.

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What does “test-optional” actually mean?

Bill:
Test-optional on the surface means you may submit scores but you do not have to. In reality, it’s much more nuanced.

Some test-optional schools truly don’t care about scores. Others absolutely still care and would prefer a good score.

A great example: Barrett Honors College at University of Arizona has said they may use test scores as a “tiebreaker” between applicants. That sounds small, but it’s a meaningful distinction.

Ryan:
Another example: Rollins College in Florida is test-optional—for most majors. But if you apply to the undergraduate business school, tests are required.

So it’s not enough to check the college’s admissions policy. You also need to check the policy for your specific major or program.

Chris:
Exactly. Even here in Colorado, business and engineering honors programs at CU Boulder require strong test scores. You can’t rely on the college-wide policy—you have to look at the department.

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Do colleges prefer a strong score, even if they’re test-optional?

Ryan:
Generally? Yes. Most test-optional schools would prefer a good score. That’s why we don’t consider test-optional the same thing as test-blind.

Bill:
It’s helpful to think of scores as a tool in your admissions toolbox. You’re not committing to using it just by taking the test. But it’s good to have it.

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How should students decide whether to submit a score?

Ryan:
First, look at the school’s middle 50% testing range. If your score is in that range, it’s a positive. If it’s slightly below but close, it still may help.

But you also need to compare your test score to your academic profile. If your grades are excellent but your test score is significantly lower, you might not want to submit.

Bill:
Right. I always ask: Does this score add value to your application?
If yes, send it.
If no, don’t.

Chris:
And admissions officers themselves have told me: “If you’re in our bottom quartile, don’t send it—we’re trying to raise our testing profile.” They’re very honest!

Ryan:
And students can call admissions offices anonymously and ask. They'll tell you whether your score helps or hurts.

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Big myths about testing

Bill:
My number one myth: The SAT or ACT is an intelligence test.
It’s not. It measures how good you are at taking that test.

Ryan:
Number two: “I’m a bad test-taker.”
Usually that means, at some point, a student had a bad experience and internalized it. With practice, familiarity, and confidence-building, most students improve significantly.

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What does the future look like for testing?

Ryan:
I don’t think tests are going away. With AI making authentic student work harder to verify, colleges need objective measures. Whether we like it or not, tests fill that role.

Bill:
I don’t think we’re returning to universal testing requirements, but I do expect more colleges—or specific majors—to reintroduce testing over time.

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Top Tips

Music cue: Top Tips!

Chris:
It’s time for a summary of the key takeaways from today’s episode. Here we go—Top Tips for Testing in a Test-Optional World:

• Most colleges are test-optional.

• Majors or honors programs may have different testing requirements than the college as a whole.

• The safest strategy is to take a test and decide later whether to submit it.

• Submitting scores is a school-by-school decision.

• Use the middle 50% range as a guide—but remember, being close to the range can still be good.

• Compare your test score to your academic profile. Does it add value?

• You can call admissions offices and ask whether your score helps your application.

• And the number one tip: The SAT and ACT are not IQ tests. They measure how well you perform on those specific exams.

A huge thank-you to Bill Huston and Ryan Krug from Mindfish for joining us today.

And remember… College is awesome.