Transferring Colleges | Episode 008

Guests:
Jaime Smith – Author, The Complete Guide to College Transfer
Zoë Barley – Recent graduate and two-time transfer who shares her lived experience

TIPS

TOP TIPS FROM THIS EPISODE

Many students transfer for valid reasons — planned pathways, academic mismatch, social fit issues, or mental health needs.
Your performance at your current college matters most: strong grades and relationships with professors (for recommendations) are essential.
Plan ahead. Choose courses that transfer cleanly (composition, math, general education requirements) and consult articulation agreements and tools like Transferology.
Transfer deadlines vary widely by school — some as early as November, some as late as July. Requirements also differ, especially essays and credit evaluations.
The transfer application essay almost always asks for both push (why leave your current school) and pull (why this new school).
Financial aid for transfers exists — including merit aid — but may be more limited and net price calculators are often inaccurate for transfers.
Sometimes the right move really is to shake things up. A thoughtful transfer can lead to the college experience you were meant to have.

EPISODE

Summary

Transferring colleges is far more common—and far more strategic—than many families realize. In this episode, Chris Bell talks with Jaime Smith, author of The Complete Guide to College Transfer, and Zoë Barley, a recent graduate who transferred twice before finding the right fit.

Jaime breaks down the full transfer landscape: why students transfer, how community-college-to-university pathways work, what grades matter most, and how to evaluate articulation agreements, credit transferability, recommendations, deadlines, and financial aid. Zoë brings a deeply human perspective as she describes transferring first for well-being and later for opportunity—ultimately landing at Stanford.

Together, they illuminate what transfer students need most: planning, clarity, realistic expectations, and permission to make a bold change. Whether you’re considering leaving your current school or planning ahead from community college, this episode offers the guidance, encouragement, and perspective you need.

Episode Quotes

“Test-optional doesn’t mean test-blind — and it doesn’t mean scores never matter.” — Bill Huston, Mindfish

“Having a score gives you a tool in your admissions toolbox. What you do with it comes later.” — Ryan Krug, Mindfish

“Families should not assume majors follow the college-wide testing policy.” — Chris Bell

GUEST

About The Guest

Jaime Smith

Jaime Smith is a leading national expert on college transfer and the author of The Complete Guide to College Transfer. She has spent more than a decade helping students move successfully between colleges—whether from community college to university or from one four-year school to another. Jaime specializes in transfer strategy, credit evaluation, financial aid considerations, articulation planning, and helping families understand a process that is far less standardized than first-year admission. She writes and consults through her platform, Transfer Savvy (transfersavvy.com).

Zoë Barley

Zoë Barley is a recent college graduate who transferred twice—first from Chapman University to the University of Colorado Boulder, then from CU Boulder to Stanford University. Her journey reflects both sides of the transfer process: leaving a situation that wasn’t working and pursuing a school that inspired and challenged her. Zoë speaks openly about homesickness, mental health, academic fit, and the power of seeking a college environment where you can thrive.

Full Episode Transcript (click to expand)

CHRIS BELL:
One in three college students transfers. It’s common—and it really comes down to fit. If college feels off for you, this episode is for you. Tonight is a two-parter: first, Jaime Smith gives us an expert, big-picture look at transfer admissions. Then Zoë Barley, who transferred twice, joins us to share her story. Let’s jump in.

Segment 1 — Interview with Jaime Smith

ANNOUNCER:
It’s The College Talk Show! Today’s theme: Transferring Colleges with special guests Jaime Smith and Zoë Barley.
And now, here’s your host—Chris Bell!

CHRIS:
Tonight’s first guest is a leading expert on college transfer—and she literally wrote the book on it. Jaime Smith’s book, The Complete Guide to College Transfer, is a must-read if you’re even thinking about switching schools. Jaime, thank you for joining us.

JAIME:
Thank you so much. I’m happy to be here.

CHRIS:
Let’s start right at the top. You literally wrote the book on transfer. What inspired you to write it, and who did you write it for?

JAIME:
I tried to make it useful for everybody—community-college students, four-year students, intentional transfers, spontaneous transfers. There just weren’t many resources out there. You walk into a bookstore and see an entire wall of first-year admission books… and almost nothing for transfer. I wanted to fill that gap.

CHRIS:
How common is transfer, really?

JAIME:
About a third of all undergraduates transfer at least once—and about half of those transfer again. It’s extremely common. Roughly 50% are planned community-college-to-university transfers; the other 50% are four-year students realizing their school isn’t the right fit.

CHRIS:
Why do students transfer?

JAIME:
Many reasons. For community college students, it’s the pathway to a bachelor’s degree. Others struggle academically or socially at their first campus. Some didn’t secure accommodations or support they relied on in high school. And a big one is culture—students who just don’t feel like they fit.

CHRIS:
For students starting at community college, what’s the most important thing they should know?

JAIME:
Planning. Classes matter, and universities want to see certain foundational courses: composition, math, and specific general-education classes. Students should use articulation agreements and tools like Transferology to understand which credits will transfer.

CHRIS:
Do colleges care more about your college GPA or your high school record?

JAIME:
It depends. For low-unit transfers (students applying during freshman year), high school grades still matter. But once you accumulate about two years of college coursework, colleges mostly care about your college transcript.

CHRIS:
Who should write recommendations?

JAIME:
College professors—absolutely. Very few schools want high school teachers for transfer apps.

CHRIS:
Let’s talk money. Are scholarships and aid available?

JAIME:
Yes. It’s a myth that transfer students can’t receive merit aid. Awards are typically smaller than first-year scholarships, but they do exist. Need-based aid is usually similar for transfers, but not always. And importantly: most net price calculators are ONLY accurate for first-year students, because that’s all federal law requires. Transfers need to read the fine print.

CHRIS:
What’s the biggest mistake transfer students make?

JAIME:
Not planning. Students assume credits will transfer, deadlines will align, and everything will fall into place. It won’t. You must check articulation agreements, understand credit policies, and know deadlines—which vary wildly.

CHRIS:
Speaking of deadlines, I’ve seen everything from November to July.

JAIME:
Exactly. Transfer deadlines are inconsistent. Students need a spreadsheet and a plan.

CHRIS:
Is it common for transfer students to get into highly selective universities?

JAIME:
It depends. Some universities accept very few transfers; others take quite a lot. On my website, transfersavvy.com, I have a spreadsheet comparing transfer and first-year admission rates for roughly 400 universities. You’d be surprised how many selective schools accept a meaningful number of transfer students.

CHRIS:
Where can families find your book?

JAIME:
Search The Complete Guide to College Transfer—it’s the only book of its kind. You can also find it on transfersavvy.com.

CHRIS:
Jaime, this has been fantastic. Thank you so much for joining us.

JAIME:
Thank you. I hope it helps a lot of students out there.

Segment 2 — Interview with Zoë Barley

ANNOUNCER:
When we come back, Zoë Barley joins us with her ultimate transfer story. Stay with us.

CHRIS:
Welcome back. I’m thrilled to have Zoë Barley here. Zoë, you truly have the ultimate transfer story—and I’m excited to hear it. Welcome.

ZOË:
Thank you so much, Chris. I’m really excited to be here.

CHRIS:
Tell us your story.

ZOË:
Sure. In high school, I was a competitive dancer. I loved dance—and I was good at it—so I pursued it by attending a conservatory-style program at Chapman University. My first year was hard. I was more homesick than I expected, and the dance focus was so intense that I couldn’t explore my other interests. I also struggled with mental health and an eating disorder. After freshman year, my parents lovingly told me they didn’t think I should go back.

I moved home to Boulder and enrolled in a couple of CU Boulder continuing-ed classes. When I felt ready, I enrolled full-time at CU—that was my first transfer.

Then COVID hit. After six weeks of being back in college, I was suddenly on Zoom again. It made me realize I wanted to push myself more and find a school that aligned with my academic passions. I applied to eight schools as a transfer—and, at my dad’s suggestion, added Stanford. When I heard I was admitted, the decision was easy.

CHRIS:
What were you looking for the second time around?

ZOË:
I wanted my “trifecta”:

a strong psychology program,
a strong feminist/gender/sexuality studies program, and
a strong enough dance program that would accept my Chapman credits.

Stanford checked all three boxes.

CHRIS:
Were deadlines and requirements as unpredictable as we warn students they are?

ZOË:
Absolutely. Different deadlines, different supplements, different requirements—everything varies. You need a spreadsheet. I lived by mine.

CHRIS:
How did you distinguish between a temporary rough patch and a deeper mismatch?

ZOË:
I had things I loved at Chapman—honors program, some friends, clubs. But the longer I stayed, the harder everything felt. Homesickness didn’t ease. Academics didn’t click. My mental health declined. It wasn’t a rough patch; it was a signal.

CHRIS:
And your second transfer?

ZOË:
That was more of a pull. I was moving toward something that excited me, not just away from something hard.

CHRIS:
What did you gain from your transfer journey?

ZOË:
In the short term, the college experience I’d always wanted. In the long term, the understanding that sometimes you need to blow things up and start again. Making a radical change can be the right move.

CHRIS:
I love that. And I’m so glad your story has a happy ending. Thank you so much for sharing it with us.

ZOË:
Thank you, Chris. This was wonderful.

Top Tips Recap (as read on the show)

Many students transfer for valid reasons — planned pathways, academic mismatch, social fit issues, or mental health needs.
Your performance at your current college matters most: strong grades and relationships with professors (for recommendations) are essential.
Plan ahead. Choose courses that transfer cleanly (composition, math, general education requirements) and consult articulation agreements and tools like Transferology.
Transfer deadlines vary widely by school — some as early as November, some as late as July. Requirements also differ, especially essays and credit evaluations.
The transfer application essay almost always asks for both push (why leave your current school) and pull (why this new school).
Financial aid for transfers exists — including merit aid — but may be more limited and net price calculators are often inaccurate for transfers.
Sometimes the right move really is to shake things up. A thoughtful transfer can lead to the college experience you were meant to have.

Closing

CHRIS:
There you have it—that’s the college transfer show. A huge thank-you to Jaime Smith and Zoë Barley for their expertise, honesty, and warmth. And remember… College is awesome.